Just 10 years ago, one of the most corrupt countries in Europe, Romania, has made great progress in all rating scales. Victor Vengibaryan, Leader of European Movement in Armenia, Parliamentary candidate from “Yelk” Alliance said in the interview. Viktor Yengibaryan’s “Yelk” alliance. He said that the country “does not need to invent a bicycle for an effective fight against corruption. We just need to implement the European experience.”
We spoke with Mr. Yengibaryan about different forms of corruption including the political corruption.
Details in the interview.
– Every year steps are being taken for fight against corruption in Armenia. What stage are we in now, in your opinion, and is there significant progress?
– The Anti-corruption council was established last year, which I think was more an imitation of the fight against corruption. In my opinion, anti-corruption council should be independent from the government. Why was this body simulation? The answer is simple: There was a big complaint among the public after the April War. Everyone understood that the war losses to a great extent were the result of corruption. The issue discussed among the public was that the marginal devices distance viewing and other measures, which have not been acquired. In addition the President announced that the results were achieved with the weapons of 1980s. So the government established the Anti-Corruption Council, in which each of the included ministers is a millionaire. However, this imitation will not give a positive result. Which also suggests the legislative initiative on creation of the prevention of corruption and ethics commission. The ethics committee has not made a constructive function until now. It has a screening function. Commission members, are recommended by the senior officials and appointed by the President. This means that in the future the Commission will not engage in anything other than imitation. Comparing at least the past experience we can report that this Commission already leads to confusion
– Let us return to the Anti-Corruption Council. At the end of last year the composition of the Board was changed. At the suggestion of CSOs’ Anti-Corruption Coalition of Armenia it included NGOs as well. In addition the Coalition joins the Council without a competition. This was what the NGOs were raising over the years. Do you expect any positive changes in this format?
– Participation of NGOs is very good. But the problem is that in addition to NGOs government members are participating as well. After all they are decision makers. Naturally their influence is great.
– Do I understand correctly? Your proposal is in essence that the members of Government may be in the Council, but do not make decisions. They may only co-operate with NGOs which will take decisions and transmit it to government
– In fact, the Council which currently exists, just had to create an independent anti-corruption body on the precedent of the ombudsman, which has constitutional powers, as well as its professional staff, and the head appointed by the National Assembly. Currently it just so happens that we are fighting against corruption through the people have a direct conflict of interests there
– Let’s talk about corruption among the authorities. The draft on criminalization of illicit enrichment was adopted to combat it. It will take effect from July this year. What is your approach to this fact?
– I am very positive to the draft on criminalization of illicit enrichment. Bur I would like that this draft has a retroactive effect. As you know, there was an initiative by Nikol Pashinyan in the National Assembly, who proposed that the income of all state employees since 1991 should be subject to verification. I am not suggesting to begin a hunt against former public servants, but in order to create a precedent we have to understand how it is that after Armenia’s independence until today the person holding public office becomes wealthy. The speech is about scandalous large amounts which have been appropriated since 1991. In order to be able to prevent it in future, we should also clean the past.
– The European Movement of Armenia is trying to make reforms in our country to the European model. What is most instructive for us in fight against corruption from this perspective, for us to be able to fight corruption more effectively?
– Europe has gone a long way in the fight against corruption. I can note the experience of Romania, which just 10 years ago was one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. But today, we see that Romania has created a business environment, public administration system that has made great progress in all rating scales. Investment companies point to Romania, as a risk-free state. Europe has passed this way, especially the Eastern Europe, and it should be instructive for us. No matter how painful and difficult it is for some community groups, we have to pass through it.
– What can the negotiations on the EU-Armenia Comprehensive and Enhanced Partnership Agreement give to Armenia in this respect?
– Armenia shall not have a very large opportunity for deepening economic relations with the EU because we are in a customs union with Russia. This means that our relations with the EU will refer more to the political, judicial aspects, as well as to the aspects of the fight against corruption.
– The Parliamentary elections are upcoming and electoral corruption is becoming topical. The impression is that this phenomenon has deep roots in our country, because before every election and then after it we are talking about bribes. How can we finally get rid of this phenomenon?
– This is political corruption, which is the basis for the entire chain of corruption. We learn from media, our active partners in places that funds are distributed, lists are compiled, and passport copies are collected. If we look at the names that are mentioned in it, we shall see that some of them were government officials. The man, who through bribery becomes an MP, will be a problem for the public in future. The NA, especially under this new Constitution, would have great influence on the country’s future. This must be prevented. It is regrettable that a more intelligent and incorruptible public sector allows those people who are less educated and tolerant towards corruption to manage the country.
– Do you receive alerts on bribery from the voters in your constituency?
– Yes, we receive numerous complaints and very specific. They even are knocking on the door and offering to pick up a copy of the passport. Note the amount of how much they will vote for. The work very precisely with the citizens. Everything is listed and coordinated. Every building has its own responsible person. Naturally, they know who they come to. The authorized responsible of the residential buildings care about it. They are very well aware of who is the potential money taker. There are certain neighborhoods that are going to take the money.
– This means that we also have a problem of the society’s consciousness?
– Yes, people think that nothing will change, and as a punishment they take money, not realizing that this was their punishment, which they will receive in double or triple size. But they also get the future. People are selling their own future.
– In fact, you are performing a function, which was done by the anti-corruption centers: collect information and submit in available form. Wouldn’t it be effective to restart the Anti-Corruption centers?
– I believe, these centers are effective and must be restarted. Especially they were functioning in large cities. People were able to solve their problems, through these offices. I am not mentioning about the awareness and other actions that they had implemented.
Interview: Gevorg Tosunyan
Photos: Aleksander Sargsyan
