Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan’s interview with the Russian TV channel RBK. A transcript of the interview is also posted on the channel’s website.
We present it below:
RBK: You returned from Nagorno-Karabakh. What is the situation there?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I was in Stepanakert, the capital of Nagorno-Karabakh. Stepanakert is under rocket fire almost around the clock, and, of course, civilians suffer there. And it goes beyond all limits. You understand, if Azerbaijan insists that Nagorno-Karabakh is a part of it, and they really think that Karabakh and Azerbaijanis can live with each other, then it turns out that they are destroying their own cities. Let’s try to understand the course of thought of [Azerbaijani President] Ilham Aliyev. Does he think that he will bomb Stepanakert, and after that the Karabakh people will live in Azerbaijan? This approach once again emphasizes that Nagorno-Karabakh cannot and will never be a part of Azerbaijan. This has already been ruled out. 100%. And this is proved by the actions of Azerbaijan.
RBK: In recent days, Azerbaijan has been announcing successes at the front, in particular, the capture of several villages on the line of contact. Is it true?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: If we take into account the information that comes from early morning, we can say that the idea of the Karabakh military leaders worked – they took tactical steps in the south, left the corridor and lured the Azerbaijani military corps there. Literally in these seconds, this corps receives crushing blows. And I think this will be the key moment of the whole operation. In these minutes, according to my information, a real foundation is being laid for the final victory of the Karabakh army.
RBK: Why do you think so?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I say this because the Karabakh and Armenian commanders had a plan: to withdraw in the direction of Jebrail and lure large forces of the Azerbaijani army there. Yesterday evening they entered there in large, very large forces, and this morning a crushing blow has been directed at them, and the operation is proceeding extremely successfully.
RBK: Is there any data on victims from the Azerbaijani side?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Yes, there is data, there is already an official statement from the Armenian Defense Ministry, and it is very important that a lot of equipment has entered from Azerbaijan. Most of them were destroyed or simply abandoned by the fleeing Azerbaijanis. So, I think that the Karabakh army will have a lot of equipment today.
RBK: A few days ago, it was reported about a missile attack on the city of Ganja. Is the expansion of hostilities possible on the territory of Azerbaijan?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: If today’s operation ends the way it began, and I think it is very likely. Because the army of Karabakh, after such a success, will not just sit and wait for the regrouping of Azerbaijani forces. And I think that if they succeed today, they will try to build on their success.
RBK: That is, to counterattack on the territory of Azerbaijan?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I cannot speak for them. These decisions are made by the Karabakh military leaders. I assess the overall situation.
“The situation in our region is being discussed, and especially the presence of terrorists.”
RBK: You have spoken on the phone with Vladimir Putin several times since the beginning of the conflict. What is being discussed? Are you talking about the supply of military equipment from Russia to Armenia?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Everything is being discussed. But the main topic being discussed is the situation in our region, and especially the presence of terrorists in the South Caucasus. Because, you know, if Karabakh and Azerbaijan or Armenia and Azerbaijan are simply fighting, this is one situation. And if terrorists from specific terrorist groups are involved in hostilities (and, by the way, yesterday Russian officials mentioned specific terrorist organizations whose members are fighting in the conflict zone) – this is a completely different situation, this is not only a question of Karabakh, but of security in our region in a broader sense – the security of Russia and Iran.
This is generally a global security issue. Because this means that terrorists are expanding their range. That is, it turns out that with the help of Turkey and Azerbaijan, terrorists have new territories where they can prove themselves. Let’s imagine that somehow this conflict ends – after that what will they do? Without a doubt, some of these terrorists will remain in the region and will operate there. We are receiving information that these terrorists are already establishing their own order in some Azerbaijani villages. And this raises the question of how much the Azerbaijani authorities control the situation in their own country. Because if terrorists operate somewhere in any normal country, the normal government should work to destroy them, and not give them the opportunity not only to act without any obstacles,
RBK: In this changed context, were Armenia given guarantees of Russian military intervention?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Russia is a strategic ally of Armenia, and we have specific agreements regarding the security sphere. For example, we have a common air defense.
RBK: Are air defenses involved now?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Yes, of course.
RBK: And in combat operations?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: No, not in combat. I mean the territory of the Republic of Armenia. But if there is a threat to the territory of Armenia through the air defense line, then our joint forces should be involved. And this is provided for by our agreements, statutes and other documents.
RBK: But the terrorist threat, as you said, is in Nagorno-Karabakh, and the issue of guarantees is Russian military intervention.
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Yes. And this guarantee applies to the territory of the Republic of Armenia.
RBK: Were these guarantees confirmed during the last conversations with Moscow?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: You know, in recent conversations we discussed these topics, but since all this is provided for by our agreements, there is no need to confirm this every time. This is an available fact, and we discussed some of the nuances of this area.
RBK: Still, do you expect supplies of military equipment from Russia to Armenia?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: As I said, Russia and Armenia are linked by allied relations, an integral component of which is also military-technical cooperation.
RBK: Will there be new supplies in connection with this conflict?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: This is another issue that I cannot publicly discuss. Especially in this situation.
“This war in general changes the whole context of this conflict.”
RBK: Do you agree that this conflict has thrown the negotiation process off for years, if not decades? Could any compromise be possible now? For example, will Yerevan agree to the transfer of some districts or to some new formulas?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: I don’t think it’s appropriate to discuss this now. You asked if I think that this war threw the negotiation process back for decades? I think that this war generally changes the context, the entire context of this conflict. Because this is no longer a conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh. This is an anti-terrorist war waged by Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia. This is a terrorist attack against Nagorno-Karabakh initiated by Azerbaijan and organized by Turkey. This is already a threat not only to Nagorno-Karabakh, but a specific threat to Russia. And the fact is that Russia also evaluates the situation approximately in this way. And if in recent days you follow the official statements from Moscow, it is obvious that Russia, if not one hundred, then eighty percent, perceives this situation in approximately the same way.
RBK: That is, the war can end only in case of unconditional surrender of Azerbaijan?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: No, the war can end only in case of unconditional surrender of terrorist groups. Because Armenia and Karabakh do not have the goal of unconditional surrender of Azerbaijan – there is a goal of unconditional surrender of terrorist groups operating in the conflict zone.
RBK: But this does not remove the questions between Yerevan and Baku.
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Sure. I have already said that their presence, and in general the presence of Turkey in the region, changes the context. Why did Turkey return to the South Caucasus a hundred years later? For two reasons. The first is to continue the policy of the Armenian genocide. You understand, if something goes wrong, the genocide of the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh will begin at least. And this is not an exaggeration. But why is it important for Turkey to continue the policy of genocide? Because the Armenians of the South Caucasus are the last obstacle for Turkey to expand to the north and east. And if we look at this situation in the context of the policy that Turkey is pursuing in the Mediterranean region with respect to Greece, with respect to Cyprus, in the context of the policy that Turkey is pursuing in Iraq and Syria, the picture will become clearer. This is an imperial policy that threatens not only Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh, but also very many countries,
RBK: I want to summarize: do I understand correctly that negotiations with Azerbaijan on resolving the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh are possible only if all terrorist groups leave the contact line, from the territory of Azerbaijan?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: Negotiations are a completely different topic. Because there is the co-chairmanship of the OSCE Minsk Group consisting of Russia, the USA and France. And they (these countries. – RBK) are working to restore the negotiation process. They made a statement on the situation, said that it is necessary to stop violence and fire, military operations. Armenia welcomed this statement. In any situation, the ability to negotiate and negotiate is, of course, important. And we very highly appreciate those efforts of the OSCE Minsk Group co-chairs, and we, of course, will be as constructive as possible in working with the co-chairs.
RBK: This negotiation process has been going on for over 25 years. As we can see, it did not lead to anything, and Stepanakert has been under continuous fire for the seventh day. What must happen for Yerevan to recognize the independence of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: We are discussing this and said that there is such an issue on our agenda. But this is not a situation in which one can specifically explain or plan: if this happens, it will lead to this. Now the situation is such that we are discussing several options for our actions, but there is also such a nuance – we are doing everything to be as constructive as possible even in the worst situation, and primarily in our relations with the OSCE Minsk Group co-chairs.
RBK: Do the OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chairs or your CSTO allies ask you not to recognize the NKR?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: No, there was no such request. I’ll tell you honestly, from the moment we announced that we were discussing this issue, no one asked us not to do this. This was not the case.
RBK: Why don’t you recognize the NKR? Because this would mean the end of the negotiations?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: This will not mean the end of the negotiations. It will depend on the specific situation, how and when this decision is made or not.
RBK: Are you closer to the recognition of the NKR now than at the beginning of the week?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: As I said, this issue has been included in our agenda. But this does not mean that we will definitely make such a decision. But this does not mean that we will not make such a decision. We discuss.
RBK: Explain your position on the peacekeeping forces. Are you in favor of their introduction on the line of contact?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: You know, it is wrong to take such a big issue, the Karabakh issue, and discuss its individual details, details of a possible settlement. Here you need to look at all this in a chain of cause-and-effect relationships.
RBK: But then only war remains, if you don’t find some ways to solve the problem right now. It doesn’t matter if it is the recognition of Nagorno-Karabakh, the introduction of peacekeepers, the transfer of regions or some other measure.
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: All these issues should be discussed in the negotiation process, which should take place in the format of the OSCE Minsk Group co-chairmanship.
RBK: Do you think that this negotiation process will begin only when Azerbaijan is weak enough to want to return to negotiations?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: If you take a broad look at this issue, the negotiation process continues even now. Our minister is constantly in touch with the co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group. As far as I know, the co-chairs keep in touch with the Azerbaijanis too. That is, this conversation continues. The negotiation process has never stopped and never stops. But, of course, in the current situation it is impossible to discuss the details of the conflict settlement. Now there is a war, and the main question is how to stop the war.
RBK: Were there any contacts between Yerevan and Baku all these days of hostilities?
Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan: No, of course not.
