During trials in France, the parties wear court-dresses. Attorney Sevak Torosyan, a French-Armenian now living in France who is also a member of the French Bar Association, believes that the parties should also wear court dresses during trials in Armenia: “This is not only symbolic. Black symbolizes justice and equality. This means that there is equality amongst all the parties: lawyers, prosecutors, and judges,” Mr. Torosyan said.

We also spoke with him about the French legal community and judiciary process, the issues of the Armenian Genocide, and about the obstacles in advancing the Armenian legal community.

– Mr. Torosyan, please compare the legal community of France with that of our country.

I believe that in France there are 55,000 attorneys. Of those attorneys, about half are members of the Paris Chamber of Advocates. The rest are considered “barons.” There are barons for big cities. The Chamber is fairly strong, with an annual budget of 70 million Euros and 120 employees. The Chamber of Advocates has great influence. It also protects the rights of attorneys worldwide in addition to advocating for changes in the laws. For example, there have been notable changes in the laws referring to terrorism and our attorneys are actively working and advocating their positions.

– Could you draw a comparison between the advocacy communities of each country?

I am not too familiar with the advocacy community in Armenia; however, during my conversations with Armenian lawyers, some problems arose. For example, in France we wear a black shirt and black court dress in the courtroom. I find that there is also a need for uniformity in Armenia. This is not only symbolic but black symbolizes equality and justice. This is even the case in Pakistan. This means that equality exists among all the parties: the judges, the lawyers, and the prosecutors. Under this cover there may be clothes worth thousands or there may be plain clothes but everyone is equal. In other words, we are all on the same level and we are all working toward the same goal: justice. This is very important.

– You’ve touched on a key issue: equality amongst the parties. Unfortunately, many lawyers in our country speak out about the lack of equality in our country, they also speak about bribery. How do you combat this issue in France?

In France since the 18th century, we have had great trials. These trials have been great fights between the lawyer and the prosecutor. The trials attract the people of the country in addition to international opinions. I have not seen any similar cases in Armenia. When there are trials which attract public attention, then there will be progress in this area. This is considered democracy. The lawyer’s role will remain secondary unless Armenia has success in this area. We need to understand that the lawyer is the defender of public interests rather than the client’s.

– This fight will indeed reduce corruption?

I’m not aware of the situation in Armenia regarding corruption. What is the problem? The judges take bribes?

– For example in 2013, former Human Rights Defender, Karen Andreasyan, published a report which clearly referred to the issue of corruption in the judiciary. According to the report, depending on the case, the bribe is usually 10% of the claim value. In an anonymous survey conducted by the Ombudsman’s Office, most respondents said that in the Court of First Instance, the bribe is between 500 and 10,000 US Dollars. In the Court of Appeals, it is between 2,000 and 15,000 US Dollars. In the Court of Cassation it is between 10,000 and 50,000 US Dollars, depending on the nature of the case.

That is insane. Judges and lawyers need to be condemned and punished and until then nothing will change.

– Is there corruption in the French judicial system?

I can’t say that there isn’t. There has been talk but I have not seen it with my own eyes. In any case, I do not think that the rumors are regarding the criminal or civil proceedings but proceedings run by elected judges in cases. For example, employment law hearings are not run by professional judges. At times even commercial hearings are not run by professional judges. They are individuals who come from the business sector. However, do not think that everything in France is white and in Armenia is black, especially in case where the amount is very large.

– What solutions do you see for the legal recognition and condemnation of the Armenian Genocide?

First let me say that we are very late. For example, the Jews were able to have the Nuremberg trials at the end of World War II. This was a success and part of the normal process. Our failure was that the promise of the Treaty of Sevres was not respected. There was not establishment of an international court which could have tried the Ottoman Empire and Talaat Pasha. This was a great shame. For example in France we say that International Court did not resolve this issue and therefore the law could not have been in force. This issue was dodged and it was te Europeans’ and the Russian’s fault that this trial did not take place in 1920. This is a big problem. Also the families of the victims are already quite old and there testimonies should be heard before the court. We rely on Muslims’ recognition which is not realistic. It is necessary to calculate the entire criminal, civil, and land issues.

– We speak with various scholars, professionals, and advocate about the development of the Armenian legal thinking and the occurrences that hinder the development. Is this something that is recognized internationally, and specifically in France?

I have not heard of it. It is not available. It needs to be written, distributed, and translated into several languages; however, it is not commonly heard of in France.

– What projects do you have or plan to implement in the Armenian Chamber of Advocates or in law firms?

Last year the Chamber established a special committee. This was a struggle of 20 years and the committee is called Paris-Armenia. There is already work being implemented in this committee. The basis of the committee is to bring the sides together through lectures. Such a lecture has been scheduled for July in France where Ara Zohrabyan will be speaking. These links need to be strengthened.

Interview and photos by Gevorg Tosunyan

Iravaban.net